Accidents & Irony

in Coincidence by



Strength team:

“You are not an accident. Nobody in this gym is an accident. Somebody created each of you with an important purpose.”

It disturbs me when creationists equate a world without god to an existence where all things are accidental. It doesn’t so much disturb me because I find the idea of an ungoverned existence frightening, or even that they don’t understand that an ungoverned existence does not equate to one with no order, rules of probability and/or basic structure – you know, like natural laws. The truly disturbing part of that false equivalency is the scientific ignorance that makes Creationists blind to their own irony. Their position of a God creating us just as we are today, and the planet six to eight thousand years ago requires them to consider a myriad of individually clarified pieces of scientific evidence from multiple disciplines to be circumstantial and accidental.
It’s the creationist position that requires it to be an accident or coincidence that chimpanzee and human genomes are more than 98% identical, and that fossils from around the world have been independently discovered, dated, and studied- contradicting biblical claims about earth-age and species development. It’s they who believe earth dating techniques including carbon , dendrochronology, amino acid racemization, palomagnetic and others performed by separate scientists in separate locations consistently yield remarkably similar results about the age of our planet just happened by accident. They all must be a flukes!
Adversely, all of that evidence makes perfect sense as a cause/effect relationship with the span of time reflective of our earth’s actual age here where I live- in reality. The overwhelming similarities between humans and other primates, as well as the presence of vestigial structures like our tailbones and appendix makes perfect sense when accepting evolution for the factual explanation that it is. Natural selection has explained the series of causes and effects for the documented changes in a variety of species, including ourselves. To believe that we were created just as we are today all stemming from a single pair of people six to eight-thousand years ago would require all that evidence to be the result of some accident rather than a well explained series of events. They must also their God either intentionally or accidentally designed us with a tailbone we don’t need, and organ that just sits inside of us waiting to burst, inadequate knee cartilage, dangerously narrow birth canals, and an immune system far too weak to fend off the viruses, which for some reason he blessed with an observable ability to evolve.
The ungoverned series of cutthroat trial and error that is natural selection also accounts for the obvious existence of flaws such as psychopaths and sociopaths who gain pleasure from the misery of others or are literally incapable of empathy. Those varieties of people are understandable for a race of slowly evolving primates. However, If we’re attributing their design to an all loving God who wants all of his creations to perform according to his perfect standard and eventually ascend to Heaven, we must file them under the accident category. It’s either that or the important, specific purpose God created them for was to murder and torture other people until society brought their actions to halt through imprisonment, theory or death. I think the strength team needs a new angle.

48 Comments

  1. @phatbundles

    He wouldn't have had to do all that if he would have made us unable to sin in the first place.

    If God is anything, he's incredibly stupid.

  2. @ootdega I'm sorry that you were not made a robot, that God made you a rational human being with a free will to do as you please. Evidently, you see that as a horrible thing for God to do, in which case you are simply beyond help.

  3. Shouldn't the strength team sorta… you know.

    Keep their rhetoric focused on squats, deadlifts, and bench presses?

  4. For what it's worth I'm a specialist in fitness science. Strength comes from learned neuro-muscular input patterns / coordination, the ability to synthesize adinosine tri-phosphate, CNS signal strength / duration / firing rates, myofibral composition and sarcoplasm hypertrophy.

    We never explain strength as "Jesus did it". It's alarming to see some of the creationist camp sticking their necks into my field of science. They're getting tired of being pwned on evolution?

  5. @ootdega What do you expect? You said that God was incredibly stupid for not making us robots; for making us rational human beings who are able to make moral decisions. The idiocy of that idea barely deserves a response, but I gave it all the same. If you meant something else by it, please tell me.

  6. @CottenEyedJoe06 You forget that the children in your story HATE their father (God) even after He has set up the world for them and given them everything. You tell me: When God gives us this world to live in and his very life for us so that we can be with Him forever someday, and all people can do is spit in His face for all that, what should be their destination? Hell is an appropriate place. Reject it if you wish, but God will punish those who hate Him because of His love.

  7. @CottenEyedJoe06 If you think God made no sacrifice, then you really have no concept of a sacrifice. Try being crucified and hanging on a cross for hours upon hours and see how it feels. Jesus was also seperated from His Father during this time too. And just because God didn't stay in hell doesn't negate his fulfillment of the price of sin. Remember, He did this for people who HATED him!

  8. @CottenEyedJoe06 If you knew anything about God, you would know that He is a JUST God. He can't say, "Oh, you've done terrible things all your life, not to mention that you hate my guts, but I'll just forgive you right quick. Come live with me forever!" What kind of monster would that be? No, God is just by nature, and as such He requires that there be payment for all sin (enter Jesus). Jesus paid the penalty for sin that a JUST God required. What is so offensive about that?

  9. @phatbundles

    If he wanted us to always make "moral and rational decisions" he could have MADE US THAT WAY. But no, he instead creates a furnace of horror and suffering and threatens to put us there if we don't do shit his way. How the fuck does that make sense?

    IT DOESN'T.

  10. @CottenEyedJoe06 Sorry about the absence; grad school is taking up all my time at the present moment. As to this comment, if you can look at the story of the Bible, that God created a perfect world that we screwed up, that he sent his only Son Jesus to leave the comforts of heaven to live a perfect life on earth, die by arguably the worst way known to pay for our sins, and then say that all He does is stands at the window and watches, I really don't know what else to say to you.

  11. @CottenEyedJoe06 He didn't have to save us; we didn't deserve to be saved. But, because He loves us anyways, He initiated a way for us to be reconciled to Him. He did all the work, and all our job is to reach out and accept His free gift of forgiveness. Our God is not one of apathy, but one who, even though He was the creator of the universe, came humbly as a man to bear the punishment that was rightfully ours.

  12. @CottenEyedJoe06 If you were facing a tortuous execution for a legitimate charge and someone you didn't know stepped up and offered to pay the price of that charge, what wold be the response of the person who originally committed the crime? That is a picture of what Christ did for us; He died in our place. Even if you don't consciously think, "I hate God", to know that He made this substitution for us and not accept it, that is just as bad as being an enemy of God, and rightly so.

  13. @CottenEyedJoe06 God in His justness determined hell to be an appropriate punishment for those who reject His FREE GIFT of forgiveness. I can't help it if that seems unjust to you. God created us in His image, which means that we have a soul and any sin of our soul requires a consequence; in His just nature He cannot merely vaporize us. And the Bible is clear that God wishes no one to go to hell, which is why He sent His Son to DIE for us!

  14. @CottenEyedJoe06 He's not putting a gun to your head. Instead, He holds out His hand, and in His hand He holds a free gift of forgiveness. We need only accept. The choice is ours, and OUR CHOICE determines our eternal destination. God NEVER chooses to send someone to hell; the fact that someone goes to hell is always because of the choice that we make.

  15. @CottenEyedJoe06 It wasn't just a few hours of pain like you suggest. Jesus lived a perfect life, which was imperative because our sin demanded a perfect sacrifice. In addition, He endured many, many hours of pain and suffering from the time the beatings started to the time He actually died. During this time He was bearing the sin and guilt of the whole world, something that is not measurable by physical pain, but this was horrific as well. Then there was suffering in hell for two days.

  16. @CottenEyedJoe06 All that is what He sacrificed. Although, I don't think it would matter to you if He spent two days or two years in hell, so I don't know why this is such a big issue for you. Are you saying that Jesus' sacrifice wasn't sufficient to pay for our sins? Remember that Jesus was perfect, whereas we humans are imperfect. A perfect sacrifice goes a lot farther than an imperfect one, so perhaps this is why unbelievers spend eternity in hell, whereas Jesus only spent two days.

  17. @CottenEyedJoe06 Also, Jesus was the only one who could have died for the world because He was the only sinless person to live on earth. And if anything, WE get the bargain because we committed the sins that Jesus paid for, and we don't have to face the consequences of these sins if we accept Christ's gift. I'm no saint myself, but I know that my mistakes are paid in full by Him, and that his sacrifice saved me from having to face the eternal consequences myself. Sorry for so many posts.

  18. @ootdega First of all, the argument about why God made us with the ability to choose right and wrong is something tha is discussed even amongst christians. It shouldn't be a reason why one rejects God entirely. And you make God out to be one who's holding a gun to our heads, when in fact he paid the penalty for the sin that WE were guilty of and offers us the free gift of eternal life if we accept his forgiveness. Sounds more like a present than a gun.

  19. @phatbundles

    Sure he did. That's why parents always say "YOU'LL GO TO HELL IF YOU (insert undesired action here)."

    So he basically comitted pseudo-suicide to forgive us of the sins that he designed us (and every other animal on the planet, or in existence according to the Bible) to do in the first place, but apparently people still go to hell for the same reasons.

    So he's stupid, hypocritical, AND a liar. Nice.

  20. @CottenEyedJoe06 Yeah, I've thought that about the comment section as well. Just send me messages, and I'll do the same…

  21. @ootdega I've said it before, but apparently you didn't hear, so I'll say it again: GOD DID NOT DESIGN US TO SIN! He made us perfect and we screwed it up for ourselves; I'm sorry if you don't like it, but that's the way it is. And I'm sorry your parents told you would go to hell if you did some unnamed action. That's not why people go to hell, so don't accuse God of that. All your accusations against God are baseless.

  22. @phatbundles

    If we were "perfect" we would never have "rebelled" and we would have never "screwed it up for ourselves." You obviously need to learn the definition of "perfect."

  23. @biggav51 Some of the message is okay, but I personally didn't appreciate the multiple references to "church," "created for a divine purpose" and "All mighty" references made throughout the presentation I attended. Mixing 9 parts punch with one part poison isn't a good enough mixture in my opinion, when you're serving to children.

  24. @7779725 That statement is absurd for so many reasons that I'm convinced you're a troll. If you're serious, please supply an actual argument for why public school is the place to advertise your religious beliefs.

  25. @7779725 Freedom of speech does not mean that time should be taken form a public school to allow people to come in and proselytize their religion, inviting people to be preached to. By your logic, Muslim extremists should also be welcomed into a school to put on a small detonation display in the gym to get kids attention, then welcome them to learn more by coming to the local mosque that night. The public school is NOT the place for religions to advertise, even if the religion says to do so.

  26. @7779725 A- According to your bible, I was created as a sinner, so I'm not going to apologize to your God for making me the way he did.
    B- Bullshit. I can't choose to believe in something that I'm not convinced of. It would be like me telling you that you need to believe in Santa Claus or else you won't get any presents for Christmas.
    C- Critically assess the concepts of a God creating us with obvious flaws, then guilting us into "confessing" responsibility for his flawed design.

  27. @7779725 Watch my video titled John 3:16. When you're done watching that, go read the bible cover to cover rather than in bits and pieces and get back to me.

  28. @7779725 Your religion is filled with paradoxes. For instance: why would an all powerful all knowing god let hitler be alive? Why did he create hitler? Why did he create us if he knew these things would happen?

  29. Another thing to Christians: I am an atheist who was baptized I escaped your money game. You don't see it do you? You create an entire religion to scare people into buying your products.

  30. I would live one of the kid to stand up and say "My mum said I was an accident, my Dad forgot to wear a rubber".

  31. my schoolhas "high impact club" the only way to get twelve-sixteen year olds to go is offer donuts and free class passes

  32. We are not flaws, we don't all gain pleasure from your misery, only the sadistic versions. I put forward to you the notion that sociopathy and psychopathy are simply an evolutionary advantageous trait that allows logic to be unhindered by a plethora of emotions. We make the best soldiers, leaders, neurosurgeons;
    We lack fear, 
    we are cunning and logical,
    our hands won't shake during a complicated surgery.

  33. what really bothers me is when groups and parents teach their children from birth all about their god never giving them a chance at atheism at all, and even condemning atheistic behavior in the worst possible way (threats of hell).

    all children should grow up atheist, then on their 16th birthday, teach them about christianity and see if they choose to believe it. you can teach a child anything from birth and theyll believe it, even something as crazy as masochism can be taught to a blank slate.

  34. People say that we are too complex to exist without a creator, but that barbaric psycho in the bible just seems like too much of a moron to have created us. I can't believe that a god designed and created women and all of their inner workings, but still seems to think that they're inferior to men, and doesn't appreciate them. As an artist, I know how much effort I put in to each of my works, so why can't your god recognize the inherent value that his own creations possess ?

  35. Some people say about not being an accident to defend creationism (or various other things), but that word itself can have negative connotations, such as saying "having an accident" to describe walking into a door frame or slipping on a wet floor. Wouldn't it also be fair to use the term coincidence for the same purpose? "X didn't happen by accident" or "X didn't happen by coincidence". It may just be my own bias and personal understandings of these words, but saying something wasn't an accident makes implies (too me at least) that it was deliberate, and if no mention is given to smaller details within, then perhaps it all turned out as intended? whereas saying "it wasn't a coincidence" seems more vague, that "it" was intentional, but the details are yet to be given or found. This being said, as I've written this post and read it over I'm feeling increasingly unsure about the validity of this question.

  36. You know what's sad? I've brought up these points to certain believers, and they all give me that same answer: "Satan and Sin" claiming these are the reasons for all the bad and also that the evidence is total deception on the part of some evil ex-angel. The question stands: Why the fuck would god allow him to piss about fucking with people and do nothing? Gee, almost like he doesn't care, or maybe he doesn't fucking exist.

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